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Help! 318 no start...

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3K views 28 replies 8 participants last post by  RussKish  
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#1 ·
I think the more excited I get about something, the more cursed I am. Got my Buford Bucket in the mail today, and ran to the garage to install it. Fired the deer up and moved it under the lights, turned it off and bolted the subframe and lift arms to the bucket. Ran out of time and tried to move the deere forward.....and nothing.

I hate wiring.... Here's what I've done:

1)Checked the two fuses at the top right under the hood, they're good

2)With the key on, checked voltage at both terminals on the Neutral Position Switch, seat switch, and PTO switch. All have 12+ volts. My 318 number starts with a 598XXX-so I don't THINK I have the brake safety switch, can someone confirm? Electrical Diagram says "318 (SN 600305)". Does that mean only machines with 600305 and above on the SNs have break switches?

3)I have a starter relay bolted to the inside, I think the PO did this as the mod for that. red power has 12+ volts, the ground is good, purple wire going to the relay has no voltage when I turn the key.

What else can I check? Does getting to the back of the starter switch require you to remove both side panels and the battery tray? Anything else I should check or is that my last option?
 
#2 ·
You can take a jumper wire from the positive terminal of the battery and touch it to the terminal on the starter to see if the starter is working ok. Then check the PTO switch, the seat switch if it has been bypassed the bypass wire might have come loose. Also think of what you might have hit accidentally while installing the subframe of the BB. There are some wires in the front that could have been knocked loose. If you haven't checked it in a long time check the positive/negative battery terminals for corrosion and tightness. After that you can start with the ignition switch to see if it is getting 12v in and out to the next check point and so on. You will solve it. Good luck.
 
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#7 ·
inspectorudy said:
You can take a jumper wire from the positive terminal of the battery and touch it to the terminal on the starter to see if the starter is working ok.
Click to expand...

That's the first thing I tried to do, how in the world to I get to the starter terminal? My 318 has a black shield all around the motor that doesn't look like it would easily come off, I can kinda see where the wires are going, but there's no way I can thread a hot wire around all that frame and metal and hit the terminal.
 
#5 ·
My neighbors 318 literally just out of no where wouldn't start. It would still turn over and pop, but not start. Long story short, sheared flywheel key. Timing was off
 
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#6 ·
Thanks guys. Problem seems to be intermediate now. I don't know for sure if what I did fixed it or not, but I traced the purple wire back to the starter swich, cleaned that up a bit, and since the battery/tray had to be pulled I hooked to two leads up to my jump box. Sure enough when I tried it then the starter spun and fired the tractor up.

I put everything back together, hopped on and nothing... Hung my head in shame and tried once more, fired up.

I got to use the bucket for an hour today over lunch (like a kid in a candy store BTW, that thing is AWESOME but I need more traction, I was spinning on wet asphalt...) Ran out of gas when I tried to restart it did it twice, Turn the key, and nothing. On the 3rd effort it started up. Really not sure what the problem is, but with this semi-reoccuring issue I've gotta get it figured out.

Does that help anyone narrow it down?
 
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#13 ·
Thanks guys. So it will start every now and then, when it doesn't I'll hear a definitive "Thud" from the engine the first time I turn the key. After that. once I let off and then turn the key again, I hear a much softer "click".

At this point I think the starter has gone bad. Can anyone confirm that is what I"m hearing?

Also, if it is the starter, does anyone have a walkthrough on how to replace it? I know it requres pulling the engine, but that sure sounds like a bear to me. Also, I know there are good deere startes and then the crappy ones. I don't really care about name brand, but I do want one reliable. Ebay has them from $57 all the way to $600. Any recomendation here on best bank for the buck?
 
#14 ·
Panther 65, you can get by normally just lifting the front of the engine (not a complete removal) to remove the starter. You will still have to remove the 4 bolts holding it in the cradle though. Sounds like the Bendix might not be engaging properly if you hear that "thud" it may not be meshing with the teeth on the flywheel.
 
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#17 ·
Thanks, I think you're on the right track. Since the side covers are removed, I can see the flywheel, I stuck a long extension in and turned it clockwise and got the engine to turn over. After that, the starter spun the engine 1-2 revolutions and then stalled. I did this 2-3 more times and then it fired up.

It's almost like it I get the engine right after a compression stroke when it's easier to turn, the starter will have enough power to turn it over, but if I leave it right befor a compression turn and the starter has to power through the compression turn, it will stall.

Is this where the starter improvement kit comes into play? The PO said there was one on it, and I see a relay bolted to the inside of the frame on the starter side right where the grill meets the frame that has the purple wire running to it and then wires running to the starter, but I"m not sure if that is the improvement kit or not.



On another note, here's what I've been working on while working on the starter issue as well. slides over top and bolts to either side of the BB. Not bad for $20 worth of steel and a couple hours work.

Image
 
#18 ·
I am still thinking key switch, because you said it would start if you jumped the relay, I did two different tractors in the last two years because of bad key ignition switches. All kinds of electrical problems were solved.
 
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#21 ·
I haven't tried jumping the starter straight off the battery, I don't see a way to get to the starter terminals without tearing the tractor down far enough to just replace the starter. I tested the purple wire leading to the relay, and then purple wire going from the relay to the starter solenoid itself. Both wires had 0VDC while sitting, and 12.4V DC when I turned the key to the "Start position". I tested both of these wires several times in a row, and the results were consistant.

Also, the main power wire running from the starter to the + Battery had 12.7V while sitting and dropped down to 12.4-12.5 with the key in the "start" position.

Is there anything else I can confirm that it is the starter? Already had the battery tested, said it was good.
 
#20 ·
Starter improvement kit is designed to take the high current demand from the starter and run it trough a relay instead. Service data showed that many key ignition switches burned out from the amount of current passing in that circuit without the relay. Relay is installed on engine or frame down by the starter.
 
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#22 ·
How much confirmation do you need? You have 12v as far as you can reach its time to pull the motor. It's under an hour each direction. You really should have an engine hoist or chainfall. I'll pull a single kohler by hand, I can do a twin, but choose not to. ill take the time and set up my hoist.
 
#23 ·
The starter is the problem, I have had my 318 with P218G for 30 years on my 3rd starter. First starter last 5 years. Second starter lasted 25 years, but a new starter improvement kit went in when it melted the 20 amp fuse in the plastic tubular fuse holder, now a auto reset thermal fuse. The new starter is 2 years old, barely have to crank it.
 
#25 ·
Are you good at winning the LOTTERY?

You don't know how old/used up there are. Do you like pulling the engine again if it doesn't last?

You use to be able to rebuild them, I don't know now, I got a new one last time and yes it was $600.00 plus labor. Check with a local Onan dealer, or the Onan online site. Do the work yourself and save a lot.
 
#27 ·
I recently bought a 1987 318 with 190 hours on it! I was in the process of taking the engine tin off to repaint it when I noticed a cut, horizontal from front to rear, made in the left side firewall engine tin. I looked to fined out what it was for and then when I pulled it back there was the Bendix and the entire enclosed area for cleaning! What a great idea. It must have been a mechanic who knew what was hiding behind the tin. I might put a hinge on it and make this a new "Mod" for my redos. As long as it had a rubber edge on it, it would seal up real nice and keep the airflow normal. I'll take a picture of it and you guys can see how much is exposed with one little cut.
 
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